The Captivity Conversation: Final Episodes 153 and 154
As The Captivity Conversation comes to a close (for now), the final two episodes approached captivity from very different angles. Together, they explored not only what captivity means for animals, but also how humans imagine, justify, design, and sustain captive systems.
Episode 7/8: World Building with Animals (with Madelena Mañetto Quick)
I spoke with Madelena (Madi) Mañetto Quick, a multispecies design researcher whose work explores the worlds we build with and around farmed animals. Drawing from research conducted on farms and in farm animal sanctuaries, Maddy challenges the idea that design should focus only on human needs.
We discussed multispecies design, sanctuary spaces as "safe bubbles," and the idea of "captive freedom", situations where animals may have more choice and security than in industrial systems while still living within human-created boundaries. Maddy also shared how storytelling, speculative design, and creative workshops can help us imagine radically different futures for human-animal relationships...
Book Recommendations:
Cheek by Jowl by Ursula K. Leguin Cheek by Jowl is a collection of talks and essays on how and why fantasy matters.
Episode 8/8: Are Zoos Really Helping? (with Chris Lewis)
In the final episode, I spoke with Chris Lewis, Captivity Research and Policy Manager at the Born Free Foundation. Having spent more than a decade working in zoos and other captive animal settings before moving into advocacy and policy, Chris brought a unique perspective on the conservation arguments often used to justify captivity.
Our conversation explored welfare concerns, captive breeding programmes, conservation claims, educational outcomes, and the challenges of meeting the needs of species such as elephants in captive environments. Chris also reflected on his own journey from zoo work to researching and challenging captivity through evidence-based policy.
Book Recommendations: The Hidden Life of Trees by Peter Wohlleben
Across eight episodes, The Captivity Conversation explored zoos, sanctuaries, rehabilitation, conservation breeding, design, welfare, and ethics through the perspectives of researchers, practitioners, and advocates.
A few themes emerged repeatedly: captivity exists on a spectrum rather than as a simple good-or-bad category; welfare involves more than survival and includes agency, choice, and species-specific behaviour; and conservation, care, education, and entertainment are often intertwined in complex ways.
Most importantly, the series challenged a simple question that never received a simple answer: what do animals need to truly thrive, and when, if ever, is captivity justified?
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